Where is organised religion taking us?

Kudos mate. I concur.

I wish I had time to tend to each of your points, but I'll just leave the gist of what I would write. You are misunderstanding the war as a war of religions...wrongly might I add. This is a political war, one based on money, oil, greed, and the apparent freedom of rights. If you look around the world, the weakest place with the most resources is the Middle East - all other areas of the world are either strong, in good standings with the UN, or resource poor. Sure South and Central America have resources, but isn't oil the ultimate resource of our time?

You won't hear Bush hide behind Christianity - and you will find the terrorists/nationalists/fundamentalists hide behind their religion. That is because it draws more popular support for their cause, especially as the nations we are going to war with are officially Muslim states. So yes, it is a largely Christian state going to war with Muslim states, but to think of it as Christianity against Islam would be quite foolish.

There will be no winners, no victory.. only losers.

I agree. "War doesn't decide who's right - only who's left."

As far as whether the world conflicts have a religious undertone, I think they do, personally. But I'm also reluctant to say that Bush is a Christian leader. While he claims to be Christian, I don't think any Christian sees him as their spiritual leader. As such, I fail to see how he could pit Christianity against Islam. It would be fair to say that he may be pitting the Western world against Islam, however. And if one believes that secular society is like a religious community unto itself, then yes, this is a war of two incompatible religions.

I agree with Prompt that wars usually boil down to money and/or land.

That said, and when you look at our history, you soon realise that it's also just as much about creed and colour. The crusades, the war on terror, vietnam... all in general were and are, wars over belief systems. Sure we'll take al the booty aswell, but it's a difference in beliefs and way of life that we're really fighting over...

And much of this is motivated and perpetrated by fear. Fear of a foreign dictator, fear of a spreading religion...you get the idea.

Where is organised religion taking us?

Might I say that that depends on the religion? Hinduism takes one to a very different place from Roman Catholicism; or, perhaps it's better to say they might be going to the same place, but they're taking entirely different paths.

You degrade religion for leading people toward a global civil war, then proceed to say we're leading toward a global civil war. What do you call your religion?

The US has a foreign policy that will, eventually, pit the Christian faith against the Muslim faith in a battle for control of the free-world.

I disagree, thanks to term limits.

no one should be surprised if the move into Iraq is a precursor to subduing more of the middle east under the banner of democracy.

Bush seems very much to believe in democracy - so much so that anyone that does not believe in it is considered a terrorist or a potential threat.

The great hypocrasy with current Amercian Foreign Policy: Forced Democracy

I think that on the surface it looks like religion v. religion, but I think there is clearly more to it than surfaces would have us believe. I think Bush, and I would include him among other neo-conservatives like Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Cheney, et.al., represents a form of "dominionism" espoused by Leo Strauss (who taught in Chicago), in which religion is seen as a tool or a means to an end. Religion is useful in that it garners support from a certain segment of the population, the religious right in this case, but that is as far as it's usefulness goes.

"Using religion as a political tool has two equally unsavory consequences. First, when religious beliefs become the guide for public policy, the social virtues of tolerance, freedom, and plurality are undermined, if they are not extinguished altogether. Second, the use of religion as a political tool encourages the cultivation of an elite of liars and frauds who exempt themselves from the rules they apply to the rest of humanity. And this is a recipe for tyranny, not freedom or democracy." -- Shadia Drury

Even 'sects' within the same religion are now at odds with each other - the escalation of conflict between Sunni and Shiite Muslim communities in Iraq for example

These sects have always been at odds with each other, ever since the death (or whatever you believe) of Muhammad. Their very foundation expresses their differences. This is not a recent development, even in Iraq. Saddam just kept the two groups "peaceful" by promoting the agenda of one and repressing the other. A small point perhaps, but I though it worth mention.

There is no denying that Religion and Politics are becoming increasingly intertwined, a partial reversion to older times where dominant religions were triggers for much hostility.

I would argue that religion and politics have almost always been intertwined throughout history. That is why the formation of the US was such an interesting "secular experiment" at the time. It is a relatively recent trend that countries have become more secular, and thus I think we notice the more religious governments more because they "stand out".

Kudos mate. I concur.

meh 2. I think war, religion and all other pointless and violent escapades should be stopped and peace reign! I mean it. Enough of conquering, discriminating, nuclear-weaponing and hedging.

I wish I had time to tend to each of your points, but I'll just leave the gist of what I would write. You are misunderstanding the war as a war of religions...wrongly might I add

Nope, he's right there. Almost every war has its basis in or is caused by religion. Think about it.

This is a political war, one based on money, oil, greed, and the apparent freedom of rights. If you look around the world, the weakest place with the most resources is the Middle East - all other areas of the world are either strong, in good standings with the UN, or resource poor. Sure South and Central America have resources, but isn't oil the ultimate resource of our time?

Agreed, the middle east is the ultimate resource and 2 out of the three "to-be-taken-down" countries are down. But religion does play a part here. The two sides each represent a religion, the conquerees are flocking together under the name of a religion... has there ever been a non-christian president of the US? Or an african-american president? Or a woman president? Nope. It's all Caucasian christian male.

So yes, it is a largely Christian state going to war with Muslim states, but to think of it as Christianity against Islam would be quite foolish.

What else is it? You just said it yourself. It is a war that has some basis (strong basis at that) in religion. Mr. Bush is a devout, as we all know.

I question that... whether Bush really is "a devout, as we all know." I've looked, but cannot find which congregation he belongs to or claims membership in. You're welcome to continue the search, if you like.

He also attended the funeral of the Pope, that doesn't make him Catholic.

His general attitude shows it. The stands he takes on different things like genetics, science and all, that all shows his true colours. I also remember reading numerous times in news reports about how he considers himself to be an orthodox Christian from the south and stuff. Keep looking Aine, I'm really bust right now (sorry).

What is your point? Religion has been the cause of most conflicts throuout the ages, and in the process it has heaped untold misery upon countless millions of people wordwide. Isn't it about time we started to think about our fellow people, rather than some deity which probably does not exist?